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Am I Doing Something Wrong?
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Author Topic: Am I Doing Something Wrong?  (Read 22570 times)
Danial79
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« on: April 28, 2006, 10:58:13 PM »

After I've set all of my Exposer settings, when I go to "Image>Expose", my LDR image comes out looking very strange:



What am I doing wrong?

~Danial
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2006, 07:45:00 AM »

Quote from: "Danial79"
After I've set all of my Exposer settings, when I go to "Image>Expose", my LDR image comes out looking very strange:

What am I doing wrong?

Hello Danial,

there are a few possible reasons for this result. Please provide me access to your source images and I will find out what went wrong.
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Danial79
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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2006, 10:27:17 AM »

Unfortunately, the source images are a little too large to upload. They came from my Canon 350D and are about 3MB each.
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2006, 11:01:41 AM »

Quote from: "Danial79"
Unfortunately, the source images are a little too large to upload. They came from my Canon 350D and are about 3MB each.

Hello Danial,
unfortunately it's hard for me to make a remote diagnosis. My guess is that you somehow chose wrong settings. So, the easiest way for me to check things is to load your images, produce the result and show to you my settings. To reduce file size simply shrink your images to a reasonable size.
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Danial79
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« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2006, 08:42:09 AM »

Ok. Here are the original images resized to 1200x800. I retried them in FDRTools and they still "expose" the same way, so I'm still not sure what is going on. I'm using the "Generic JPEG" profile.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/danialcarroll/01.jpg
http://users.bigpond.net.au/danialcarroll/02.jpg
http://users.bigpond.net.au/danialcarroll/03.jpg
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2006, 12:52:56 PM »

Quote from: "Danial79"
Ok. Here are the original images resized to 1200x800. I retried them in FDRTools and they still "expose" the same way, so I'm still not sure what is going on. I'm using the "Generic JPEG" profile.


Danial, thank you for providing the images!



Before going into details, here is the result I achieved:







How did I make it? As a first step please compare the Preferences settings:







Compared with the defaults I've changed one setting: TRC is now set to "Canon D60 JPEG.trc".

Explanation: first I tried Generic JPEG as it is. I got a similiar result as above but with slight seams between the exposures. In the current version 1.6 there is a problem with JPEG blending without

- special TRC combined with

- exposure gaps greater than 1 EV.

Hene if you want to blend JPEG images with version 1.6 I recommend to use expsure intervals of 1 EV. (Note: I'm currently working on version 1.7 which will have an improved blending engine eleminating this problem altogether.)

Why have I chosen "Canon D60 JPEG.trc"? This TRC stems from profiling my own camera, a Canon D60, but it looks as if it works fine with other Canon cameras too. For your 350D it does work very well. As I've found the same for other Canon cameras as well, I will probably rename this TRC into "Generic Canon JPEG.trc".



Now have a look at FDRGui main window:







Move the separation slider of the second image to the left as shown. This  makes the whole water come from the first image eliminating possible "water ghosts".



Now check the dynamic range of the scene, looking at the Navigator Histogram tab:







It says 8 EV. This is not very much. In fact I would not call this scene an HDR scene (although there is no definition for that). I think taking one RAW photo would have been sufficient for this scene.



Finally the tone mapping settings:







First rule for finding the right Compression and Contrast settings is: look at the dynamic range value of your scene. If it is as low as in this scene then go down with the settings. A good starting point for scenes "fitting" into one RAW is 4/4. I chose a Gamma value of 0.8 to lighten up shadows somewhat and increased saturation to 1.2. Normally I don't modify saturation but in this scene with so much grey concrete I find a bit more colour does the scene good.



Now to the question why your image looks so strange. Currently I have no immediate explanation :-( My first recommendation is: reinstall the software. If the problem persists, then please post a screenshot of the command window. Checking the output of the command line tools may give me a hint. Further it could be useful to have some information on your computing environment. FDRTools is e.g. not tested very well with Windows 98.



Hmmh, that's all I can say for the moment.
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Danial79
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« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2006, 02:03:56 AM »

After reinstalling and changing the TRC to "Canon D60 JPEG", it seems to have worked. However, a new problem has reared its ugly head:

Now when I "expose", the command window looks like this, with all the % signs, and I can't "run" it:

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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2006, 08:02:28 AM »

Quote from: "Danial79"
After reinstalling and changing the TRC to "Canon D60 JPEG", it seems to have worked. However, a new problem has reared its ugly head:

Now when I "expose", the command window looks like this, with all the % signs, and I can't "run" it:

This is not a problem. The dialog asks you to specify filenames for HDR and LDR output. "Run" is not activated because the HDR filename is still missing.

From your screenshot I notice that you have set the "Compression" value to 12. This is surely too much for the dam scene. You will probably get a bad, muddy looking image. Please try my suggestions first, i.e. Compression 4, Contrast 4.
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Danial79
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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2006, 03:03:24 PM »

Ok, so I've entered both HDR and LDR paths and I can "Run", yet continuing the drama, when I "expose" the FDRExposer image, I get the funny colours again, and when I "expose" the FDRCompressor image, I get an error in the command window stating "Bogus virtual array access".

Here are the "expose" and command windows:



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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2006, 04:42:56 PM »

Quote from: "Danial79"
Ok, so I've entered both HDR and LDR paths and I can "Run", yet continuing the drama, when I "expose" the FDRExposer image, I get the funny colours again, and when I "expose" the FDRCompressor image, I get an error in the command window stating "Bogus virtual array access".

Please do the following:
First, set the output format to TIFF16 (16Bits/channel) or TIFF8 whatever you prefer. Second, use the images I used, i.e. 01.jpg to 03.jpg, the reduced size versions (I suppose you used the full size images). If you do this, you should be able to reproduce my result. I would be happy if you could verify!

Now, your full size images seem to have "black" pixels, that is pixels with zeros in all channels. This gives the giant dynamic range of 32 EV you can observe in the FDRExposer text output. This is not a problem in principle as FDRExposer should filter out these black pixels. But obviously this does not work as it should. In addition it there is something wrong with writing BMP format.

I'm really sorry for the inconvenience Danial, believe me. I will look after this problems and fix them asap!
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2006, 06:34:18 PM »

Quote from: "AndreasSchoemann"
Now, your full size images seem to have "black" pixels, that is pixels with zeros in all channels. This gives the giant dynamic range of 32 EV you can observe in the FDRExposer text output.

I've tried to verify my theory by inserting black pixels into your images and then processing them. But I could not reproduce the minimum luminance of 0.000015. The lowest possible value is 0.07. Looking into the sources I found that such low values can only occur in the course of the color conversion process. Unfortunately this didn't happen with your reduced size images. As I have no idea how to find the cause for this by just thinking about it there is no other way than inspecting your original size images IMG_0547 to IMG_0549. I know you don't like the idea of uploading big images. Nevertheless I would like to beg you to do it as otherwise I'm stuck...
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Erik Krause
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« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2006, 11:06:12 PM »

Danial,

I think I encountered something similar.  Try to set ETR to 0.0 to verify. If this avoids the strange colors in the "Exposed" result it's most likely the same problem and there probably is no need to send files, since the problem can be reproduced with any set of images.

Best regards
Erik
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2006, 11:22:43 PM »

Quote from: "Erik Krause"
I think I encountered something similar.  Try to set ETR to 0.0 to verify. If this avoids the strange colors in the "Exposed" result it's most likely the same problem and there probably is no need to send files, since the problem can be reproduced with any set of images.

Erik, you found it. Thanks a lot!

Looking at the FDRExposer parameters I overlooked the transition=1.0. Now I can reproduce the giant 32 EVs and the HDR image looking like crap.

And I had myself already prepared for a sleepless night...
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Danial79
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« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2006, 11:46:29 PM »

Just for the record, these problems I'm having happen no matter which source images I use.

I'll give the ETR=0 thing a go when I get home from work...

Thanks for all the help.
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Danial79
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« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2006, 06:53:38 AM »

I just set ETR=0 and the Exposer image worked without the strange colours (although it does look very washed out and flat in Photoshop, but that's fixable), yet the Compressor image still comes up with "Bogus Virtual Array" even with a range of 10ev.
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