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Version 2.0 buggy and confusing
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Author Topic: Version 2.0 buggy and confusing  (Read 12516 times)
lozoyad
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« on: November 03, 2007, 03:39:40 PM »

Just wanted to say that I find the latest 2.0 version very buggy and of bad design. I t has crashed or frozen on my Vista PC several time, the concept of saving time using projects does not save time at all....its slowing down the workflow. Very confusing and non-intuative. I certain the bugs and interface can and will be improved...but for now I'm going back to earlier version.
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lozoyad
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2007, 03:43:35 PM »

Also, we need new updated documentation. Showing us how to use new feature might help the learning curve.
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2007, 04:22:04 PM »

Hi,

concerning docs: I've just updated the quickstart tutorial and will now write a short intro to projects here in this forum. The more detailed manual is under construction.

concerning bugs: I've developed and tested the new version with Vista, even Vista64, so I'm a bit surprised about your experience. Anyway, if you think you have found a bug please provide me with as many details as possible. The more precise your description of symptoms the quicker I can find the cause.
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2007, 05:37:50 PM »

Ok.

I've written down what is available so far on Projects. Any suggestions? What else do you need to know?

More details on the bugs available?


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lozoyad
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2007, 09:47:36 PM »

Firstly, I do appreciate the very quick response to the lack of documentation. The new doc helped me
 with the learning curve.

1) When I load Canon 5D RAW images into a project I see "?" marks. I think your intent was to show
   a thumbnail here, but I see "?" marks instead.
 
2) I have been trying to re-create the hanging encounter and found a pattern but its not
   consistent. When I go to Edit (project editor) and Save the LDR tiff file it will
   freeze (most of the time). This was essentially the old method I used to create an LDR image.
   I use Compressor most of the time. Its frozen right now as I type
   this and will have to kill FDRTools. Beta7 and previous releases did not do this.
   I have turned off all virus protection and have a very stable desktop (no other programs freeze).
   If I use the Project 'Render' button to create the LDR image then all is good...no problems.   
   
3) This may be by design...but when I render a project a second time FDRTools overwrites
   the original (projectname.ldr.tif) whithout a warning. 
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2007, 09:21:59 AM »

2) I have been trying to re-create the hanging encounter and found a pattern but its not
   consistent. When I go to Edit (project editor) and Save the LDR tiff file it will
   freeze (most of the time). This was essentially the old method I used to create an LDR image.
   I use Compressor most of the time. Its frozen right now as I type
   this and will have to kill FDRTools. Beta7 and previous releases did not do this.
   I have turned off all virus protection and have a very stable desktop (no other programs freeze).
   If I use the Project 'Render' button to create the LDR image then all is good...no problems.

Oh dear  Embarrassed I can confirm this: on Windows Vista saving a tone mapped image with Compressor can freeze the program. It may or may not happen, depending on the relation of Navigator size to image size! If you work with small images you may not notice it at all. This one is perfidious. Microsoft has changed the rules for accessing STL container, imho without need. The only reason I can think of is security. Code that worked perfect on earlier Windows versions may crash now. And you only notice it when the program is running. And the worst thing: I have to scan all of my program code to see if there are other places where I violate Microsofts security policy Sad

However, I wonder why I did not stumble across this while testing the software. Maybe because I concentrated on the new functionality and the possibility of such a problem did not come to my mind. And on XP etc. you don't see this.

This problem occurs also when rendering the project. To reproduce it, edit the project up to the point where you want to save the tone mapped image. But now save the project entering project view. When you now render the project the same steps are performed automatically that you had performed manually before. Rendering is like a "play back" of what you have "recorded" before.

This is a serious thing. I need to come up with a fix asap.

Thank you for pointing me to this bug.
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2007, 09:33:03 AM »

3) This may be by design...but when I render a project a second time FDRTools overwrites
   the original (projectname.ldr.tif) whithout a warning.

Yes, that's right. So far I've done nothing to avoid this. Will think about it. Maybe introduction of a "name" for each run would be useful. Results would then be saved in a directory with that name...
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2007, 09:44:32 AM »

1) When I load Canon 5D RAW images into a project I see "?" marks. I think your intent was to show
   a thumbnail here, but I see "?" marks instead.

Yes, I've recognized it this morning. I got a 5D image yesterday from a photographer who has a problem with it on OS X.

Not all cameras embed thumbnails or preview images in their RAW images. If exiftool and dcraw can't find anything in the RAW file then there is nothing there. The only way to get a thumbnail then is to scan the complete image which is time consuming and not done so far. I want to implement this as a part of "preparing" the project because at that stage the image is scanned anyway.

However I was surprised to see that the 5D does not contain such data as it is a rather new Canon model. Will check again if that is true or if there is a bug in the scanning code.

So far JPEGs and RAWs (normally) show thumbnails. Tiff images don't (unfortunately).
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2007, 10:42:38 AM »

1) When I load Canon 5D RAW images into a project I see "?" marks. I think your intent was to show
   a thumbnail here, but I see "?" marks instead.

Yes, I've recognized it this morning. I got a 5D image yesterday from a photographer who has a problem with it on OS X.

Not all cameras embed thumbnails or preview images in their RAW images. If exiftool and dcraw can't find anything in the RAW file then there is nothing there. The only way to get a thumbnail then is to scan the complete image which is time consuming and not done so far. I want to implement this as a part of "preparing" the project because at that stage the image is scanned anyway.

However I was surprised to see that the 5D does not contain such data as it is a rather new Canon model. Will check again if that is true or if there is a bug in the scanning code.

Ok, now I know: it is a bug. Have seen the same with the Canon 400D. Gives "?" also but has thumbnails embedded. Will fix it.
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2007, 01:02:55 PM »

The two bugs mentioned are solved with version 2.0.1.
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lozoyad
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« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2007, 04:22:45 PM »

Just had a few minutes to play around with 2.0.1 and yes confirmed you fixed the two bugs above. Thanks for the quick turnaround.

I know you will do this but we need to get your project documentation linked into the app Help tab. Some may not know it exists.

Now if you can speed the app up some you will have the best HDR app around! I run an Intel Core 2 6400 OC'ed to 3.2 ghz per core and its still a slow process. However it is worth the wait as FDRTools still gives me the best LDR image even better than Photomatix!
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2007, 06:38:30 PM »

Just had a few minutes to play around with 2.0.1 and yes confirmed you fixed the two bugs above. Thanks for the quick turnaround.

I know you will do this but we need to get your project documentation linked into the app Help tab. Some may not know it exists.

Yes, sure.

Quote
Now if you can speed the app up some you will have the best HDR app around! I run an Intel Core 2 6400 OC'ed to 3.2 ghz per core and its still a slow process. However it is worth the wait as FDRTools still gives me the best LDR image even better than Photomatix!

Currently the application is not multithreaded. This is one of the things I will tackle next. It will not only improve speed but also responsiveness ot the GUI. The whole workflow will benefit. However, as I have no experience with it and I know it isn't trivial it will surely take some time to get it right.

As the Plug-In urgently needs an update it will be the "test" object for multithreading (among tone mapping improvements of course).

So FDRTools will sleep for a while. But prior to that I will do some Project functionality enhancements not so hard to implement:
  • Add a "select project directory" button to the project bar. Create a project folder within this directory if none is there otherwise load the available projects from there. This way you can switch easily among various image folders. This probably fits better your style of classifying images and you can avoid "overload" of the project browser. (The directory selector in the Preferences will be removed.)
  • Sorting projects by name and creation date.
  • "Collapsing" projects to "lines", just showing name and creation date/time, hiding thumbnails and buttons.
  • Adding a new grouping criterion (for "Many" projects): number of images. This is useful for panoramas where all the exposure series have identical number of images.

If you have other ideas for features let me know. If they turn out to be easily implementable I'll do it. These changes will make version 2.1.
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lozoyad
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« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2007, 04:43:45 PM »

Yes...multithreading is important for performance. As you know, the movement is toward muti-cores...so we must take advantage of them. Frankly I'm seriously contemplating going to a quad-core...so can't wait to see FDRTools take advantage of these new cores.
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