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Batch Processing Suggestion
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jrandall
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« on: July 17, 2009, 11:22:10 PM »

Hi Andreas:

I'd like to suggest adding some more flexibility to the batch precessing (prepare and render) feature of FDR.  The additional fuctionality I'd like is to be able to 1-step process up to creating and saving an .hdr/.exr image (for my workflow includes loading and converting raw files, aligning and saving the aligned images, and creating and saving an .hdr/.exr image).  Then when the project is opened again I'd like to be able to directly open the .hdr/.exr image and start tone mapping.  This will speed up the process by not having to load the aligned images and creating the .hdr/.exr image every time.  Of course, keep the current fuctionality is also important if one wants to tweak the alignment, or .hdr/.exr image creation process.

Thanks.
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2009, 04:27:37 PM »

Hi Andreas:

I'd like to suggest adding some more flexibility to the batch precessing (prepare and render) feature of FDR.  The additional fuctionality I'd like is to be able to 1-step process up to creating and saving an .hdr/.exr image (for my workflow includes loading and converting raw files, aligning and saving the aligned images, and creating and saving an .hdr/.exr image).

It would be easy to add HDRI creation as an option to the "Prepare" step. Will do it.

Quote
Then when the project is opened again I'd like to be able to directly open the .hdr/.exr image and start tone mapping.  This will speed up the process by not having to load the aligned images and creating the .hdr/.exr image every time.

Once the HDRI is there you could simply open the HDRI in order to tone map. No need to edit the original project then. You could also create new projects from the HDRIs if you want to memorise the tone mapping settings.

Andreas
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jrandall
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2009, 09:10:41 PM »

Quote
Once the HDRI is there you could simply open the HDRI in order to tone map. No need to edit the original project then. You could also create new projects from the HDRIs if you want to memorise the tone mapping settings.


My desired work flow is to work in batch mode as much as possible.  I was hoping to eliminate the need to create a new project for each HDRI (and then opening each HDRI project by clicking on edit, *individually tweaking* the TM settings, saving the project, and then rendering in batch mode the TMed HDRI projects).    Could you add a TM button to the project (the Edit button would retain its current function)?  The TM button would open the project associated HDRI and jump the the TM tab. I guess an additional Render TM button would also be required to retain the current Render button fuctionality.  Think about it -- of course creating a new project for each HDRI is not that time consuming! 

Thanks. 
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2009, 12:34:11 PM »

My desired work flow is to work in batch mode as much as possible.  I was hoping to eliminate the need to create a new project for each HDRI (and then opening each HDRI project by clicking on edit, *individually tweaking* the TM settings, saving the project, and then rendering in batch mode the TMed HDRI projects).    Could you add a TM button to the project (the Edit button would retain its current function)?  The TM button would open the project associated HDRI and jump the the TM tab.

Maybe it would be best to give up the strict separation between "Project Manager" and "Image Editor"? As you say it might be best to simply integrate a menu or "shortcut" buttons for all functional groups (align, create HDR, tone map) and eventually the associated subfunctions (like Simplex, Receptor and Compressor for tone mapping group) with each project. Pressing the TM shortcut would then open the tone mapping functionality immediately - provided the necessary HDRI is available in the cache.

Is this what you want?
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jrandall
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2009, 05:22:10 PM »

I think so...however the devil is in the details.  Smiley

Need to make sure the workflow back and forth migration between batch and individual projects is easy and seemless.  I'll be happy to alpha test any concept.

Thanks for listening.


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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2009, 06:37:04 PM »

I'll think more about it.

Some time ago I had the idea of rendering FDR projects in the same way software projects are compiled. This would mean to render only those parts of a project that have changed and all its dependencies which could include other projects as well, not more, not less. Example: if you tweak the tone mapping settings of a project and press the (global) Render button, then only the tone mapping of this project will be rendered anew. This mechanism would make the "Prepare" and "Render" buttons and the associated check boxes within a project superfluous. Only the global "Prepare" and "Render" buttons would survive. Much simpler than it is now...
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jrandall
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2009, 11:54:56 PM »

I think you would also need a clean/easy way to stop at all the possible intermediate steps for a global Prepare function.  1) Setup projects and auto or manually select images for projects, 2) open selected images (raw or otherwise), manually or auto align, and save aligned images, 3) create and manually adjust HDRIs or create HDRIs with defaults , and save HDRI. I'm sure I miss several possibilities, but I'm sure you understand the issue.

I assume the Render function would only apply to tone mapping and that HDRI creation would be a Prepare function.

It's the devil in the details again...


 
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2009, 09:01:00 AM »

I think you would also need a clean/easy way to stop at all the possible intermediate steps for a global Prepare function.  1) Setup projects and auto or manually select images for projects, 2) open selected images (raw or otherwise), manually or auto align, and save aligned images, 3) create and manually adjust HDRIs or create HDRIs with defaults , and save HDRI. I'm sure I miss several possibilities, but I'm sure you understand the issue.

Not really. But I have prepared a sketch that shows how a project could look like, see attachment. According to this idea there would not be a "Prepare" step any more. Instead you have options you can choose. Then you press "Render" and the project is "rendered". One could also say "build" like in software projects. The options mean the following:
1. develop Raw images - if your project consists of RAW images they may be developped. If the source images are JPEGs the option will not be available. Choosing this option means that image loading will be much accelerated in all following steps. Con: more space on the harddrive is needed.
2. create image pyramid - this one is new. All images (maybe including source images) will be saved as image pyramids. Choosing this option means that image loading will be much faster in all following steps. Con: more space on the harddrive is needed.
3. align source images - source images will be aligned.
4. create HDR image - HDR will be created. If you have more than one source image this option is mandatory. If there is only one source image it is treated as "HDR" image.
5. tone map HDR image - HDR will be tone mapped.
"Edit" buttons mean that you can adjust parameters for the respective option. Once you have changed something the option will be rendered anew (along with possible dependencies).


* project_proposal_1.png (7.56 KB, 417x376 - viewed 4563 times.)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 09:03:04 AM by AndreasSchoemann » Logged
jrandall
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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2009, 01:02:50 AM »

There are many possible paths -- I think your proposal is excellent, but actual real world testing will be a good thing.

Quote
  2. create image pyramid - this one is new. All images (maybe including source images) will be saved as image pyramids. Choosing this option means that image loading will be much faster in all following steps. Con: more space on the harddrive is needed.
What is an image pyramid?

Quote
  3. align source images - source images will be aligned.
And saved?

Quote
  4. create HDR image - HDR will be created. If you have more than one source image this option is mandatory. If there is only one source image it is treated as "HDR" image.
What HDRi editing can be done if there is only an HDRi or other source image in the project?  If there is only one image shouldn't this option be grayed out and only tone mapping allowed.

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  5. tone map HDR image - HDR will be tone mapped.
Load HDRi or other single source image, tone map and save?

[/quote]
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2009, 07:45:43 AM »

There are many possible paths -- I think your proposal is excellent, but actual real world testing will be a good thing.

Quote
  2. create image pyramid - this one is new. All images (maybe including source images) will be saved as image pyramids. Choosing this option means that image loading will be much faster in all following steps. Con: more space on the harddrive is needed.
What is an image pyramid?

One can precalculate downsized versions of an image like (width, height) / 2, (width, height) / 4, (width, height) / 8 and so on. If you stack original and downsized versions on top of each other this looks like a "pyramid".
Precalculating different resolutions of an image allows to generate previews much faster but also needs about 30% more space on harddisk.

Quote
Quote
  3. align source images - source images will be aligned.
And saved?

This is not necessary because the time consuming step is to calculate the aligning parameters. The actual aligning is quite fast. However, saving the aligned image is of course possible.

Quote
Quote
  4. create HDR image - HDR will be created. If you have more than one source image this option is mandatory. If there is only one source image it is treated as "HDR" image.
What HDRi editing can be done if there is only an HDRi or other source image in the project?  If there is only one image shouldn't this option be grayed out and only tone mapping allowed.

Sure, you are right. Creating/editing HDR image makes no sense if there is only one source image.

Quote
Quote
  5. tone map HDR image - HDR will be tone mapped.
Load HDRi or other single source image, tone map and save?

What do you mean?
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jrandall
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« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2009, 05:55:13 PM »

Quote
Quote
  5. tone map HDR image - HDR will be tone mapped.
Load HDRi or other single source image, tone map and save?

Quote
What do you mean?

I suspect we are on the same page, but just in case...  Assume one or more projects containing an HDR image or single source image have been created/saved in step 4. 

For non-batch mode (single project) usage, pressing the project level Edit button would load the HDRI or other single source image and open the tone mapping screen to allow the user to tweak the settings. Exiting the project at this point would save the tone map settings for future batch processing.  Or pressing the project level Render/Build button would apply the tone mapping settings and save the LDR image.

For batch mode (multi-project) usage, pressing the Batch Render/Build button would load the HDRIs or other single source images, apply the stored tone mapping settings (or default settings if project specific settings were not created), and save the LDR image.  I don't think a Batch Edit function would make sense unless one were to apply the same non-default tone mapping settings to all the selected projects.  ...need to think about this one a bit more.
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AndreasSchoemann
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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2009, 10:36:12 PM »

For non-batch mode (single project) usage, pressing the project level Edit button would load the HDRI or other single source image and open the tone mapping screen to allow the user to tweak the settings. Exiting the project at this point would save the tone map settings for future batch processing.  Or pressing the project level Render/Build button would apply the tone mapping settings and save the LDR image.

Yes.

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For batch mode (multi-project) usage, pressing the Batch Render/Build button would load the HDRIs or other single source images, apply the stored tone mapping settings (or default settings if project specific settings were not created), and save the LDR image.

Yes.

Quote
I don't think a Batch Edit function would make sense unless one were to apply the same non-default tone mapping settings to all the selected projects.  ...need to think about this one a bit more.

You have the option to generate a "Template" project, edit and save it, and then apply its settings to other projects. I think this is what one could also call "Batch Edit".
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